From $15K and Zero Cases to 180 Active Files with Mark Shirian

Turning $15K and zero cases into 180 active files proves what focused strategy and consistent action can do for your cash flow.

In this episode, Mark Shirian, Founder of Mark David Shirian P.C., shares how he started with limited capital and built a high-performing litigation firm. You see how he generated cases early, stayed visible, and kept momentum even when revenue was uncertain. 

You learn why more cases do not always mean more money. You need to track KPIs, understand referral fees, and predict when revenue will hit. Without this, growth can hurt your cash flow.

You also see how press exposure builds authority and brings in opportunities. It positions you as the go-to lawyer and can even increase case value.

If you want better cash flow, smarter growth, and stronger financial results, this episode gives you a clear path.

Press play From $15K and Zero Cases to 180 Active Files with Mark Shirian and start building a business that actually pays you back.

Mark Shirian is the founding member and principal attorney of Mark David Shirian PC, a Manhattan-based litigation firm known for high-profile results in federal and state court. Named one of the National Trial Lawyers Top 40 Under 40, Mark has secured multiple seven-figure settlements against Fortune 500 companies, school systems, and government entities. His practice spans personal injury, employment discrimination, civil rights, and complex litigation.

Connect with Mark Shirian:

LI:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-d-shirian-esq-08011316/ 

IG: https://www.instagram.com/themillenniallawyer/ 

Mark David Shirian P.C. 

Website: https://www.shirianpc.com/ 

LI: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mark-david-shirian-p-c/ 

FB: https://www.facebook.com/people/Mark-David-Shirian-PC/100021421104370/  

Judicial Dollars and Cents, a podcast hosted by Anders Partner and Virtual CFO advisor John Scott, focused on helping law firms win high-stakes cases with smarter financial strategy. The show breaks down the key metrics, financial frameworks, and decision-making systems that drive stronger case outcomes and firm performance.

Website: https://anderscpa.com/learn/podcasts/judicial-dollars-and-cents/ 

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jdc.vcfo 

Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/jdc.vcfo/

John C. Scott, CPA, AEP, is a Partner in Tax and a leader in legal industry financial strategy by Anders. He helps law firms win high-stakes cases with smart strategy by delivering clear financial insights, identifying key performance indicators, and strengthening decision-making at every level. With deep expertise in estate planning and financial analysis, John works closely with attorneys and firm leaders to align financial goals with long-term business success and case readiness. His approach brings scalability, flexibility, and data-driven clarity to complex legal environments, helping firms stay focused, prepared, and competitive.

Connect with John C. Scott:

LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-c-scott-cpa/&nb

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Judicial Dollars and Cents brought to you by Anders virtual CFO services team from all across the United States. I'm John Scott, and in each episode, we'll shine a light on the financial side of the legal world, turning law firm numbers into impact-driven stories. From taxes and profitability to practice growth and leadership, we sit down with law firm innovators who are shaping the future of the profession. Let's dive in right here on Judicial Dollars and Cents. Hey, welcome back to Judicial Dollars and Cents, the podcast where we dive into the business side of running a law firm. I'm John Scott with Anders Virtual CFO Services, and each week we talk with industry experts who help law firm leaders think differently about growth, profitability, and performance so they can build practices that last. Today we welcome Mark David Shirian. Mark is the founding member and principal attorney of Mark David Shirian PC, a Manhattan-based litigation firm known for high-profile results in both federal and state court. Mark has obtained multiple seven-figure settlements and been named one of National Trial Lawyers Top 40 under 40, a distinction order awarded to elite trial attorneys. His practice spans personal injury, employment discrimination, and harassment, sports and entertainment law, and complex litigation matters. Mark has taken on Fortune 500 companies, school systems, and governmental entities, including securing a $1.5 million recovery under the Child Victim Act. And his work has been featured on multiple media outlets. Before launching his firm in 2016, Mark was a collegiate wrestler and high school coach. Experiences that he credits for shaping his competitive mindset, strategic leadership, and relentless advocacy. Mark, welcome to the show. John, I'm so happy to be here.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Hey, I love your background and how how did you get from the wrestling mat to the courtroom? Can you tell us your origin story?

SPEAKER_01 1:58

I'm happy to. I'm happy to. So I'm originally from New York City. I've actually never left New York. Uh we lived in Queens for a bit. And then when I was two years old, uh my family moved to Long Island. We bought a house on Long Island. I was about two years old. And I grew up in Great Neck, which, if you're familiar with the Great Gatsby, that's uh West Egg in the Great Gatsby. That's right. Right outside of the New York City um lines. And, you know, I had a very nice upbringing. Uh, both my parents worked, uh, they were very hardworking people. Um, I was always into sports, I always kept myself busy. Um, so you know, I was on the football team in high school, I was on the wrestling team in high school, I played baseball. Um, but I I will I'll tell you, it was while I was in health class in high school where we watched the movie Philadelphia with Tom Hanks and Denzel Washington. And when I had watched this movie, I was just completely taken aback and inspired by the advocacy of both of these characters and the compassion that they both had for each other and for the judicial system. And it just inspired me to no end. And after watching this movie in high school, I just felt like this is something pursuing law, going to law school was something that I needed to do. And um, I ended up going to NYU. I was on the wrestling team at NYU, and then I went to New York law school right after that. But I'll tell you, John, litigation is very much like wrestling. And if you think about it, I mean, we were talking about this before, but think about it. Litigation, you have both you have two sides, you're out there alone, you also have a referee who's more like a judge than anything else. And you gotta be quick on your feet. It you know, if you don't walk in prepared, you're probably gonna lose. And you have to be tenacious, and you can't just give up when things get rough. So I I've learned a lot. Obviously, I was a wrestler in middle school, high school. I wrestled at NYU, and then for six years, I was the head wrestling coach at a private school on Long Island, which was a great experience, but I had to stop because I was starting my firm. But that's how it kind of evolved. You know, litigation was just very natural for me because I was uh a wrestler growing up.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

So I love the fact that you've equated wrestling to law, and and you're exactly right. The judge is the referee. And as we talked on the pre-call, uh three of my boys wrestled in middle school, and I wrestled a little bit in high school, but I hung out with a bunch of wrestlers, and it's just a great discipline. You're part of a team, but it really is your individual effort and what you put into it. Now, I wrestled at 128 in high school, but by the end of the season, when everyone else was cutting weight, I was in the 130s. I mean, I was eating ice cream bars afterwards, so my wrestling career lasted just a couple of years. Hey, so you came right out and started your own firm, is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 5:32

So I worked, um, I had passed the bar on the first try, and I was working at a firm. My first job out of law school was at a personal injury law firm in Flushing, Queens. It was mostly a Korean focused client law firm. Um, I've learned I learned a ton, but that was the only, that was like the first job I was able to get uh out of law school. And I learned I would go to court, I would have five compliance conferences on. I I learned a lot. It helped me learn my way around the courtroom, this job. Um, but what I didn't like about the job was that I wasn't able to communicate with a lot of these clients because they didn't speak English. They they were Korean or um they just didn't understand English. So I was only there for eight months. It was a great experience, but I ended up getting a job at a boutique litigation firm in Manhattan called Lynch Rowan. They used to do a lot of work for Sears, Kmart, if you remember those entities. Now they're all but they were a pretty in its heyday, it was started in the 80s by um Thomas Lynch and Mark Rowan, my former bosses who I really admire and and learn so much from, and I'm still in touch with. But I was at so I ended up going to this firm. It was four partners. I was the only associate. It was a boutique litigation firm. They did a lot of defense work, but they knew that I was more of a plaintiff's focused attorney. And even at my interview, they were like, you know, if you get this job, we would love to, you know, you could bring in plaintiffs' cases, we'll help you, we'll, you know, we'll finance the cases. Because uh, they were more of a boutique firm. So it was a great fit. The pay wasn't great, but it motivate motivated me to bring in cases. And, you know, and I would tell any young lawyer, because now I don't I don't know if people are going to court as much as they used to, but before COVID, I was going to court every day. And you know, you dress nicely, you go to court, you look presentable. You never know who you meet, whether it's other lawyers or people that are looking for lawyers, people don't realize, but a lot of people just show up to the courts without a lawyer and they ask questions. I think as long as you get your name out there and you're meeting people, it could really um, if you're looking to build a book of business, it can go very far. But um, I was at this firm for a little over two years, and it got to a point where I was bringing in cases. I was bringing in a lot of uh sexual harassment cases and injury cases. And uh I had about 15,000 bucks to my name uh based on some of the cases that I brought in. I only got a third of what I was able to even bring in. So 33 cents on every dollar that I brought in, I got. And um, with 15,000 bucks, I went out and started my own firm in August of 2016. So this August will be 10 years I've had my own firm.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Well, that's a big motivation when you know that you can bring in the cases, you can handle the work, and you want to get more of the rewards. So you went out and struck out on your own. How big are you today?

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Right now we're about six. So I started the firm almost 10 years ago. Five years ago, my brother, who's also an attorney, Sean Shirian, he started working with me. And then um we have a lot of virtual staff. We have a virtual receptionist, Regine, who's doing a great job. We have Gianella, who's a virtual paralegal for us. Uh, she's been with us for two and a half years. I can't believe it. And uh we have uh a marketing manager as well. So I would say a group of six, six right now, and we have about 180 active cases in the You know, that that's great.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

I think the pandemic went a long way to teaching all of us that we don't have to be in the same footprint or office to collaborate and get work done.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

John, it's very interesting that you say that because think about it. I started the firm in 2016. I had a certain, you know, as you know, it was a different world we were living in in 2016. Really different. Especially where you are. Yeah, well, right, right. But I had visions of having an office filled with people and culture and you know people that I could manage on a day-to-day. And I just don't think it's like that anymore. There's a way to get work done without people being in the office, and people don't want to come in five days a week. So if people don't want to come in five days a week, then I guess the virtual staff aspect of it expands your pool of candidates with respect to just getting this work done. But this wasn't what I had envisioned, but I think it's the smartest way to get things done, and it really allows you to uh scale quickly.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

You know, you're exactly right. I never thought in a million years that we would be in this world where people are in you know 25 different states and you can work effectively with them. But the pandemic compressed five years' worth of remote work learning into about 18 months, and we figured it out. You need less real estate. This we struggle, um, and I think we've overcome it in building culture and collaboration, in that our division that does VCFO work is about 80 strong. And so twice a year, we bring everybody together and we spend three to five days together. Just we do a little bit of work, but we also go out in the evening together so that when you see the person on a Teams or a Zoom call, you remember, oh, you know, their their little Joey plays football, and you know, you know different tidbits about him, so you can build that culture and that collaboration through those events. Hey, I want to talk about AI. And that I find that there are two camps of attorneys. Some attorneys are deathly afraid of it, it's going to ruin the profession, and some are embracing it with caution, you know, because we still need the human element. Where do you fall on that? And is your firm using any AI tools?

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Absolutely. So at first I was very scared of it. I didn't understand how it actually worked, and I was very scared of hallucinations and stuff like that. Um it's been several years of AI, and I can tell you that my office heavily uses AI. Um, yeah, think about it, as a plaintiff's uh personal injury contingency firm, we don't bill hourly. So being as efficient as possible, uh we we can uh we can uh uh help out our clients even more by being even more efficient. For example, a letter to the court, you know, we have so many uh different templates that we use for that. A letter to the court that would previously take 30 minutes is being done in less than a minute. And you know, I uh it's we're it's been great. I think uh we are a lot more efficient with respect to evaluating from the very beginning, evaluating cases, drafting up complaints and lawsuits, analyzing uh responses, putting together discovery demands, putting together mediation memorandums. Yes, I I would say we heavily use it, but with caution. Um I yeah, so it's it's been I think it's been monumental, and if you're not embracing it very soon you will be left by it, I think.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Well, you know, uh current and future listeners will hear me say this a hundred times. It's going to allow smaller and mid-sized firms to compete with much bigger firms, and we have to be responsible about it, but it's gonna move lightning fast and it's gonna change every few months. Hey, what case management system do you use to track your cases?

SPEAKER_01 14:28

We use Cloudlex.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Okay. Does it have any AI features built into it? A lot of the case management companies are coming up with features.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Yeah, not yet. I've asked about it, not yet. But as far as like systems that we are using, I was actually at um, I'm sure you're familiar with Mark Lanier down in Texas. So he uh I went to his uh trial uh I guess seminar uh in Houston back in June, and his entire presentation for two days was about uh utilizing AI in your practice and during trials. And he was really big on Claude. I had I had heard of Claude, but never really used Claude. I was before that, I was using Grok uh oh obviously paying for all these subscriptions. But um I've been using Claude and it's been pretty I'm very happy so far with uh the type of product that's coming out with Claude. So um CloudLax doesn't have an AI system yet. I mean, yes, a lot of them are trying to develop one, but here's the thing this space is changing so quickly that you know, and I won't mention the names, but you know the big players out there, the AI players who are trying to get firms to lock in sometimes for a year with their system. Um not necessarily excuse me, not necessarily those systems uh are compatible with Cloudlex. But here's the thing, and I think this is the problem that I have, and I think a lot of other owners have. How are we? I I think we're still in the first few innings of this AI transformation. Why would I invest in a system right now when it's it's I still don't know what's the better product or a better product for me? So I'm very slow to commit to a certain AI tool until I see how this actually picks up and and where it's left off.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

So I think that cautious approach is wise and and I'm glad you're open to it. Hey, I want to shift gears a little bit to forecasting. So in an hourly billing firm, forecasting is easy, right? It's I have this book of clients, they need work, I can have expected charge hours, it's rate times hours, plus or minus the value that is perceived by the biller, but I can predict that revenue. In your world, with different types of contingent cases, we like to take PI firms and say, okay, we have five different types of cases. We can assign values to them, we can assign milestones from intake to adjudication and then predict when that cash flow is coming in. And we can build these, they they seem complex, but they're really not models that will go out 12 weeks, six months, and a year to show us when this inventory of cases that we have are going to monetize. You do any of that work on on with your case management system or in your finance area?

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Um, not through my case management system. I I will I'll be very frank. I think my biggest issue up until seven months ago was not keeping track of these things. I think my the the mistake that I made, I don't think in any, you know, listen, if you want to learn about yourself, start a business in a big city, and you'll learn what you need to work on, and you'll learn what you need to what you're good at and what you're not good at, and personality and and and all those that type of development, you'll you'll figure out. But I think with me, I was too focused on the money coming in, the the the the cases coming in, rather. Right. I was focused on I need to bring in cases to work on. And unfortunately, fortunately, yes, it was great. I started the firm with 15,000 bucks, zero cases, and now I've built it up to a pipeline of 180 cases. And yeah, that that doesn't come overnight. Nobody handed that to me. That was a lot of hustling and being out there and telling people about what I do. I and I still do all that, but not to the same extent that I did starting out when you know you're not think about it, you go from getting paid every other week to you know, you're waiting for these cases to hit. So I I would say in the last six months, to your point, and I think what you that point as far as predicting, tracking those numbers and predicting what type of money you're gonna come in that that's gonna come in later on is so important, those type of KPIs that we are now implementing, not through our case case management system, but I think just starting out with your profit margin, you know, figuring out what your profit margins have been for the last few years, or maybe we're in 2026 now, but going back to 2021 to 2023 each year, how much total cases did you settle and what were the attorney's fees for those years? And you see how it has increased in those three years, and I think that gives you a nice bedrock of figuring out how you are progressing as far as the amount of cases you're settling and the amount of attorney's fees that you are recovering. Because look, I have a lot of my cases are actually referrals from other attorneys. And those other attorneys, as long as there's a joint participation clause in the retainer and the client knows about it, they're entitled to a referral fee. Now, that could make more sense for someone that doesn't want to spend a lot of money on advertising that they may or may not get back. Um, so figuring that those numbers out, because just because you settled a lot of cases doesn't mean the revenue is going to be that high because you are paying referral fees. So, yes, very, very important. And we are implementing these types of KPIs in the future uh so we can have a much better sense of predicting money coming in. Because look, if when you're looking to hire, when you're looking to scale and grow, you need to know the type of money that's coming in. And it who cares about how much you made last year or two years ago. So that's where my mindset has shifted, completely opposite to what you just said. I was more focused on cases coming into the into the firm than when those cases are gonna hit and when those cases are gonna sell. But at the end of the day, you really need both, quite frankly.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Yeah, and then finding the cases is just the first half, then somebody's got to do the work and get the fees in the door. I think it starts foundationally with what we call profit focused accounting. And the first pillar of that is cash. How much cash do you need to retain inside your business to pay the bills, to pay? Your staff to pay the rent. And we have a general rule of thumb, it's between 10 and 30% of your expected revenue in the next 12 months. Now, those goalposts are really a factor of risk. If you're an hourly billing firm with eight clients that pay by return mail, you're closer to that 10% number. But as a PI firm with ups and downs in the cases and the settlements that are coming in, and the fact that you're financing all the prepaid case costs, you probably need closer to that 30% number. And then once you have that, once you've built up to that target, then the next dollar that comes in is available for distribution to the ownership group, which is a good feeling. And so many, look, so many attorneys in undergrad, I don't know what your undergraduate degree was in, but it wasn't accounting or finance, and you certainly didn't get it in law school. And the reality is you're running a business, a business for profit. And so when you start to pay attention to the data and you have good current financial information, then you can really get a business that is profitable and pays off. You guys are great lawyers, you have a great reputation. Let's get the rewards from it as well. Hey, I want to shift gears. You're on uh the news a lot. Did that generate a significant amount of business for you? I guess it keeps your name piece top of mind.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

That's a great question. Thank you for bringing that up. Um, I've been blessed. I've been blessed because there are lawyers, good lawyers out there, that you know they've maybe been in the press once, if any. And I've been blessed to attract newsworthy cases that people want to talk about. And I think it's also a credit to my firm wanting to take on these tough cases, wanting to take on big defendants and not being scared of that fight and finding a way to bring justice to our clients. Now, look, being in the press is there, there are two sides to it, because you could bring you could be in the press and you look at the comment section and people are really into your case, they're really supporting your client and and all that. And then you have, obviously, you have uh other people who don't think so much of the case. And it it makes you it's it's it's interesting because it's like a jury pool. Some jurors are going to be into your case, some aren't. Um it is a good way to amplify your client's uh uh I guess uh issue to a broader society, and it's a good litmus litmus test to figure out how people are responding to your client's situation and to garner sympathy. And if you're dealing with a big defendant and they see that how it's impacting um you know people's sentiments about what happened, that could drive up uh a settlement. But I'll tell you, as far as garnering cases, yes, it it does give you an authority in your field, but there are repeat clients, not repeat clients, but people will have an issue. They'll Google it, they'll look it up, and then the article will come up. Well, this attorney sued a daycare center. This attorney sued for sexual harassment, this attorney sued this company. I had a very similar issue with that company right now, and he's in New York. I was uh I'm gonna reach out to him because I saw that he handled that case. So that's where the press really comes into play. Um, and I also think attorneys should do a much better job of being out in the press. I don't think you do a better job of that. I've always had connections with people in the press because they need you probably more than you need them. And use the content, right? They do need the content, and um, it's with with respect to so on Instagram, I'm the millennial lawyer. And you know, every time I'm in the press, I'll screenshot the article, I'll put it on a story or make it a post. And people, it really um it elevates how people think about you and your practice, and it is newswork. You know, they're not gonna do a uh an article about a rear-end uh car accident, you know, but that's where I'm and you talk about cash flow, and I I would like to just touch upon we're a hybrid, you know, we do a lot of personal injury, 75%. But I would say the other 25%, we do a lot of employment discrimination, a lot of civil rights. And in in in those realms, you see more of the newsworthy cases. That's where you know, and and that has helped the PI part of what we do. And obviously, we've had newsworthy PI cases as well. I actually, it's interesting with the press, though, I'll tell you. There are cases that I had where my clients have said to me, I don't want you going to the press with this. Like, okay, we're not that's fine, we're not. Or I'll have clients I don't even think it's pressworthy at all, and neither do they. And we'll just file it without any sort of press at all. And I'll have my contacts at the press reach out to me kind of upset. Like, why didn't she tell us about this? I didn't know it was newsworthy or pressworthy. Well, one last point about being in the press. Yes, it has garnered cases, but I'll tell you what's even more important that dries up the value of these cases is that you don't know who will have evidence on your case. If the case is in the press and they know you're the attorney for that party, you don't know who will reach out to you. That has happened many, many times. Where former employees or people that know the players, defendants that we're dealing with, they'll reach out and say, I yeah, I I once had a situation where someone called me and was like, I was waiting for someone to file a lawsuit against these people. I I'm surprised no one ever brought a lawsuit against these people. And this is this is what I have on this on with respect to that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

That could be very helpful. The press comes in, yeah. Yeah. So I guess I have two thoughts on the press. I mean, litigators are always on stage. I mean, that's what you train to do, and you're always storytelling and and trying to persuade. And there is no bad press, right? I mean, if you're out there talking, people know your name and they know what you do, and you can't be uh can't be harmful. That's awesome. Hey, uh, before we wrap up, I want to talk about something we talked about on the pre-call, and I had no knowledge of this, but tell us who the Heisman Trophy is modeled after and what university they came from.

unknown 29:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Well, and I I don't think a lot of people are gonna know this unless they went to this school.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

Well, on the pre-call, you asked me who my favorite football team was, college football team, and that's how we started talking about this. But the Heisman Trophy is actually modeled after Edward Smith, class of 1936 at NYU. And I think he played in the NFL with the Redskins and the Packers, and he was inducted into the NYU Hall of Fame in 1983.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

But yeah, the I guess that's why it's at the New York Athletic Club, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Uh what? The the Is that where they award it? I think they award the Eisman Trophy. It's somewhere, it's somewhere in uh Midtown. It's in one of the hotels in Midtown. I don't think it's at the AC. I've actually wrestled at the athletic club. Um funny fact, Mickey Manel lived right there when he played for the Yankees, where the Athletic Club is. Oh wow. So he lived right there. But um, no, yeah, that's that's where I went to school. I went I wrestled at NYU. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

Well, if that ever comes up on a trivia question, I will now know the answer. I appreciate it. You didn't know that. Wait, before we wrap up, Mark, what's the best way to for folks to get a hold of you?

SPEAKER_01 31:09

I would say on uh Instagram, they could reach out to me at the Millennial Lawyer, or you could go on my website, sheerionpc.com, or you could give us a call at 212-931-6530.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Mark, thank you so much for joining us, and thank you all for tuning in to Judicial Dollars and Cents. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to like, follow, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps us grow and ensures you never miss an episode. We'll see you next time on Judicial Dollars and Cents. Thanks for joining us on Judicial Dollars and Cents presented by Anders Virtual CFO Services. If you found value in today's conversation, be sure to follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcast. To learn more about how Anders helps law firms strengthen their financial foundations and drive growth, visit AndersCPA.com. Until next time, keep making smart decisions that make perfect sense.